David Barnett is a coward. He goes by David Martsen because he is too coward to be known. Since Mr. Barnett is a fraud, we are going to expose him. I am sure the media in Raleigh, NC will love to know about this! I am also sure the local boy scouts will love to know this.
Boy Scouts of America
(919) 828-9662 - 2429 Appalachian Dr, Raleigh, NC
Get Directions
Boy Scouts of America
(919) 872-4884 - 3231 Atlantic Ave, Raleigh, NC
Get Directions
Please feel free to contact them ASAP and report David Barnett, the same coward who was too scared to face the Rhino Times. Speaking of the media, here is how to contact them!
http://news14.com/
Or the local newspaper!!!
http://www.newsobserver.com/
Thursday, April 10, 2008
Friday, February 22, 2008
No feedback or proof from the National HQ - proves they steal funds
I gave the Knights Party National HQ 7 days to provide proof of where their funds go to. Well, it's been way longer then 7 days and no proof. Of course you and I both know they steal and misuse funds. The proof is simple, they were to chicken to answer us. If you had proof, would you not come forward and show it? And yes, they do read this blog. We know because we get death threats and silly comments from their members weekly. Once again, the Knights Party proves they are frauds!!
Thursday, January 31, 2008
Be gone 7-10 days
My wife and I are on our way to Europe. I will be gone between 7-10 days. Thanks for all the great feedback from all the people out there. And thanks for all the insane lack of common sense threats from the members of the Knights' Party, the biggest scam and fraud the white movement has ever seen. Be back soon. Until then, 83!!
Wednesday, January 30, 2008
To Thom Robb and National HQ
We are calling you out.
1) We want proof of where all monthly donations go. You claim they go to the white race. Really? Then show us what you spend monthly donations on. Other groups show proof of where their monthly donations go. If they can, so can you. We will give you 7 days to provide us the proof. If not, it proves to us you are pocketing all the money.
2) At HQ, you have over 40 bricks you sold to members for $350 each. Can you show proof of where this money went besides your back pocket?
We will give you 7 days to answer. If not, we take this as proof you steal movement funds. Other groups inform members where their money goes. If they can, so can you.
1) We want proof of where all monthly donations go. You claim they go to the white race. Really? Then show us what you spend monthly donations on. Other groups show proof of where their monthly donations go. If they can, so can you. We will give you 7 days to provide us the proof. If not, it proves to us you are pocketing all the money.
2) At HQ, you have over 40 bricks you sold to members for $350 each. Can you show proof of where this money went besides your back pocket?
We will give you 7 days to answer. If not, we take this as proof you steal movement funds. Other groups inform members where their money goes. If they can, so can you.
A Knights' Party member speaks out: Guess Thom Robb takes anyone like we've said all along
Staff - Wow, just wow. Man, where does Thom Robb find these people? Wait, he never turns down an application. Here is an e-mail from one of his members. Too funny. Read the pure retardation of this moron.
Staff what staff... I have $500 says you wont meet rpersentatives in person to deliver that so called information you have....we have proof in the pudding your a liar....which is slanderous and there fore punnishable by laws of the state which you are posting in. Come clean and we will not prosecute! -Maximous
Staff - First off, what is a rpersentatives? I've never seen that word in my life. Second, I am waiting on his so-called proof that we are liars. Below are some of the facts we've proved that cannot be a lie.
1) Don Black, former leader of the Knights' Party did break into the office of another White Nationalist.
2) David Duke, a former leader of the Knights' Party was caught on tape selling his KKK membership list to a FBI agent.
3) Thom Robb has never provided proof or a bill of where his 40 plus bricks at $350 apiece income has went to.
4) Randy Gray is a high school dropout.
5) The Knights' Party did lie about units that don't exist.
6) The Knights' Party does sell people rank.
And of course I could go on and on. But as you can tell, I proved my point. I also have another question for this idiot that e-mailed us here, what is "punnishable"?
Tuesday, January 29, 2008
Members of the Knights' Party upset with our blog
In the past three days dozens of threats have been made against the staff here at Christian Frauds. Members of the Knights' Party have threaten us with violence, reporting us to Google (oh well, we have a back up blog at wordpress) and with the FBI (typical of members of theirs to work with FEDS - recall Randy Gray worked with Hal Turner who was recently outed as an FBI informer).
1) Threatening me with violence does very little. Actually, it makes me want to work on this blog even more than I already do.
2) Contact Google. This blog makes fun of a KKK group. LOL, do you think Google cares? I am shocked they aren't helping me write this blog.
3) Call the FBI. It's not illegal to point out facts and post the comments of others, unless that data is copyrighted. It's also not illegal for people to post their comments in the comment section. If someone wants to write Thom Robb is a conman, they have that right - its called free speech.
If you people don't like this blog, oh well. Your shouldn't belong to a group that does nothing. We want one thing on this blog to be proven a lie. Until then, shut up. We have offered $50 for anything to be proven a lie here. And yet, no one has taken us up on our challenge. Instead, we are threaten with attacks and nasty comments. Very typical of the "Christians" who make up the phony Knights' Party.
Again I ask you all the following questions -
1) Where was Thom Robb and the Knights' Party during Jena 6?
2) Where was Thom Robb and the Knights' Party during the Black on White Norfolk attack?
3) Where was Thom Robb and the Knights' Party during Pitts and his "cry me a river" comment?
4) Where was Thom Robb and the Knights' Party during Knoxville 1 and 2?
5) Where was Thom Robb and the Knights' Party during the time their Kansas member was exposed by a reporter?
We will also ask these questions again -
1) Why does the Knights' Party allow black state leaders?
2) Why does the Knights' Party allow news reporters to join and expose their members?
3) Why does the Knights' Party allow a dog to join?
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
Don Black: Keynote speaker at the Knights' Party Faith and Freedom Conference
This can be found on the main page at www.kkk.com. For a group which claims to be Christian, one would think they could do better than Don Black, a known conman and thief. Black has a past of stealing from others, selling drugs and ripping other whites off. You refresh your memory here at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Black_(white_nationalist) and http://christianfrauds.blogspot.com/2008/01/leadership-of-knights-party.html.
I wonder will Thom Robb and Rachel Pendergraft tell their members about Black's past such as breaking into the offices of fellow white nationalists, selling drugs, helping Duke out with his cocaine and hooker past and stealing movement cash?
I wonder will Thom Robb and Rachel Pendergraft tell their members about Black's past such as breaking into the offices of fellow white nationalists, selling drugs, helping Duke out with his cocaine and hooker past and stealing movement cash?
Tuesday, January 22, 2008
Child slave labor at the Knights Party HQ ?
I find it sick when people use their children to make a quick buck. That idea alone is Jewish in nature.
Look at April Gadee of the National Alliance. That whore forced her children into making music. She didn't care that they were being exposed to child molesting perverts such as Kevin Strom, Matt Downey or John Justice. All April saw was dollar signs. The well being of her children meant nothing.
After doing some research, it seems Thom Robb is doing the same with his teen age grand-daughters.
First off, here is their website, http://heritageconnection.tv/.
Second, read their blog, http://www.heritageconnectionband.blogspot.com/. Is it just me or does it look like every blog is being coached? What I mean is, it seems like like they are talking like robots. They are saying what they are told to say by someone else. That is the feeling I get. You read and make up your own mind.
Third, take a look at the gift shop, http://www.ozarkcrafts.net/music.htm. Like April, the Knights Party are using underage children against their will to make a quick buck - sick.
Fourth, look at this link, http://heritageconnection.tv/About.htm. Nice that they post pictures of their underage kids for any sick pervert to download. But then again, what should we expect from the leadership of the Knights' Party? Anyway they can make a quick dollar is okay in their eyes.
Look at April Gadee of the National Alliance. That whore forced her children into making music. She didn't care that they were being exposed to child molesting perverts such as Kevin Strom, Matt Downey or John Justice. All April saw was dollar signs. The well being of her children meant nothing.
After doing some research, it seems Thom Robb is doing the same with his teen age grand-daughters.
First off, here is their website, http://heritageconnection.tv/.
Second, read their blog, http://www.heritageconnectionband.blogspot.com/. Is it just me or does it look like every blog is being coached? What I mean is, it seems like like they are talking like robots. They are saying what they are told to say by someone else. That is the feeling I get. You read and make up your own mind.
Third, take a look at the gift shop, http://www.ozarkcrafts.net/music.htm. Like April, the Knights Party are using underage children against their will to make a quick buck - sick.
Fourth, look at this link, http://heritageconnection.tv/About.htm. Nice that they post pictures of their underage kids for any sick pervert to download. But then again, what should we expect from the leadership of the Knights' Party? Anyway they can make a quick dollar is okay in their eyes.
Monday, January 21, 2008
Jessica Gray: Admits that dogs can join the Knights Party
Seen above is Jessica while she stares down the pot roast and cake.
Staff - It amazes me how people will deny things then turn around and openly admit it later on down the road. for months Jessica Gray claimed a "dog" was not part of the Knights Party.
Taken from http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=64562
Although it is off topic, I find it interesting that your members have soooo much free time and money that they can join other groups to troll and surf their web boards just to create problems. Says quite about about your member's charcter. Maybe I should sign up for the ANSWP under my dogs name, or maybe just one I pull out of the phone book. - Jessica Gray
Staff - She admits she may sign up for the ANSWP to return the favor since they did that to the Knights Party. One problem, Bill White does background checks and doesn't live off of movement money like Thom Robb...
__________________
Debbie Downey - KKK Mascot Whore?
Staff - Again, these are not the words of anyone here at Christian Frauds. These are from a nearly four year old thread at VNN. The thread can be found here, http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=2802&page=3.
Let me guess. You are affiliated with Klunt Downey.
Klunt and Ksludge Downey's goings-on are legendary within CI. Klunt herself, when accused with the goods I had gotten NEVER denied the truth of the allegations that she had been the sexual mascot of the Washington State Klan, and that her ex-husband the Grand Dragon made her the 'entertainment.' At least she didn't deny it back in March-April 2002. Instead she whined and screetched that I was spreading 'malicious gossip.'
This past summer, she tried to do some damage control by making the fact that she was a whore to be all her ex-husband's fault. She also tried to figure out who had given me the info by claiming that 'only two' women might have been the source, when in fact, it could have been the wives of any of the Klansmen who enjoyed her favors. I'm pretty careful of my sources.
http://www.martinlindstedt.org/ml062103.html
I gave her the name of 'Klunt' for obvious reasons. She obviously thought that being the wife of the Grand Dragon gave her the right to be second from the top, when in fact she was almost always on the bottom. 'Klailiff' indeed. She may have been 'vice-president' of her Klan according to her, but she had much to do with putting the 'vice' into that office/orifice.
Most of my sources say that Ksludge Downey is even more odious. A liar, a sneak, and a cheat who tries to back-stab the One-Seedliners like Barley and Peters. Is it any wonder that the One-Seedliners despise them both, nearly as much as us Dual-Seedliners? That is why the only idiots who believe that Klunt and you are genuine Identity females are the WN-lite fools at Stormfront?
I have my suspicions as to your genuine identity. You are either a fool or a liar, I suspect both, regarding what Peters teaches. Peters is leery of us Dual-Seedliners because we have criticised some of his teachings in the One-Seedliner mode. However, somebody is going to be in charge of the One-Seedliners and it might as well be Peters, as opposed to real baal-priests like Barley and Wieland.
Insofar as your behavior is concerned, it is no wonder that you cause mischief with your lesboskank femnishevikism between CI and non-CI Movement people. Where is the man who is responsible with his life for your behavior? Obviously, you are just a wild cunt wasting air running your mouth and causing trouble without any masculine supervision in defiance of YHWH's Law. It sure didn't take long for even the unbelievers to figure out that there was something wrong with you. Garrett doesn't know much of CI dogma, but he got you pegged quick enough.
The only thing which passes your [nether] lips of value will be cannon-fodder for Christian Israel, because obviously you don't have much, if anything for a brain. And if you are who I think you are, there is a reason why you have been banned from every little Dual-Seedline congregation in Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee. Not a single church elder wants a repeat of having you sling your douchebag across his chops.
That is the good thing about Christian Identity. A Christian Israelite has the Law of YHWH written on their heart. I've NEVER had an argument with a genuine Christian Israelite woman EVER because a genuine Christian Israelite woman NEVER argues with a Christian Israelite man, especially any man who is not her husband, father, or brother. There is a reason for I Corinthians 14:34-35.
I am not angry at Klunt Downey because she was a whore, who whored with only token resistance at her ex-husband's command. ZOGland is full of sluts. I didn't know or care to know of her. I have no personal animus against her, until I was enraged when that lying, sneaking evil bitch dared to lift up her hand to an Elder and Teacher of the Faith, who even if he erred and was naive to be used as cover by baal-priest agents provacateur, was writing and expounding on the Law of YHWH to the milk-bibbers. I knew full well then Klunt was not one of us, and so I asked for, and received confirmation of her conduct.
The Sword of YHWH shall start first in YHWH's House. You shall be cut off unless you learn obedience starting with the man who is in charge of you and responsible for your behavior with his very life. I doubt that you are in obedience to any Christian Israelite man.
Insofar as the rest of this Forum is concerned: This female is NOT one of us. She is merely a stray bitch under the dominion of no man. You may treat her as such if you catch her running your sheep or killing your chickens.
--Martin Lindstedt
A Defender of the [Dual-Seedline] Faith
Let me guess. You are affiliated with Klunt Downey.
Klunt and Ksludge Downey's goings-on are legendary within CI. Klunt herself, when accused with the goods I had gotten NEVER denied the truth of the allegations that she had been the sexual mascot of the Washington State Klan, and that her ex-husband the Grand Dragon made her the 'entertainment.' At least she didn't deny it back in March-April 2002. Instead she whined and screetched that I was spreading 'malicious gossip.'
This past summer, she tried to do some damage control by making the fact that she was a whore to be all her ex-husband's fault. She also tried to figure out who had given me the info by claiming that 'only two' women might have been the source, when in fact, it could have been the wives of any of the Klansmen who enjoyed her favors. I'm pretty careful of my sources.
http://www.martinlindstedt.org/ml062103.html
I gave her the name of 'Klunt' for obvious reasons. She obviously thought that being the wife of the Grand Dragon gave her the right to be second from the top, when in fact she was almost always on the bottom. 'Klailiff' indeed. She may have been 'vice-president' of her Klan according to her, but she had much to do with putting the 'vice' into that office/orifice.
Most of my sources say that Ksludge Downey is even more odious. A liar, a sneak, and a cheat who tries to back-stab the One-Seedliners like Barley and Peters. Is it any wonder that the One-Seedliners despise them both, nearly as much as us Dual-Seedliners? That is why the only idiots who believe that Klunt and you are genuine Identity females are the WN-lite fools at Stormfront?
I have my suspicions as to your genuine identity. You are either a fool or a liar, I suspect both, regarding what Peters teaches. Peters is leery of us Dual-Seedliners because we have criticised some of his teachings in the One-Seedliner mode. However, somebody is going to be in charge of the One-Seedliners and it might as well be Peters, as opposed to real baal-priests like Barley and Wieland.
Insofar as your behavior is concerned, it is no wonder that you cause mischief with your lesboskank femnishevikism between CI and non-CI Movement people. Where is the man who is responsible with his life for your behavior? Obviously, you are just a wild cunt wasting air running your mouth and causing trouble without any masculine supervision in defiance of YHWH's Law. It sure didn't take long for even the unbelievers to figure out that there was something wrong with you. Garrett doesn't know much of CI dogma, but he got you pegged quick enough.
The only thing which passes your [nether] lips of value will be cannon-fodder for Christian Israel, because obviously you don't have much, if anything for a brain. And if you are who I think you are, there is a reason why you have been banned from every little Dual-Seedline congregation in Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee. Not a single church elder wants a repeat of having you sling your douchebag across his chops.
That is the good thing about Christian Identity. A Christian Israelite has the Law of YHWH written on their heart. I've NEVER had an argument with a genuine Christian Israelite woman EVER because a genuine Christian Israelite woman NEVER argues with a Christian Israelite man, especially any man who is not her husband, father, or brother. There is a reason for I Corinthians 14:34-35.
I am not angry at Klunt Downey because she was a whore, who whored with only token resistance at her ex-husband's command. ZOGland is full of sluts. I didn't know or care to know of her. I have no personal animus against her, until I was enraged when that lying, sneaking evil bitch dared to lift up her hand to an Elder and Teacher of the Faith, who even if he erred and was naive to be used as cover by baal-priest agents provacateur, was writing and expounding on the Law of YHWH to the milk-bibbers. I knew full well then Klunt was not one of us, and so I asked for, and received confirmation of her conduct.
The Sword of YHWH shall start first in YHWH's House. You shall be cut off unless you learn obedience starting with the man who is in charge of you and responsible for your behavior with his very life. I doubt that you are in obedience to any Christian Israelite man.
Insofar as the rest of this Forum is concerned: This female is NOT one of us. She is merely a stray bitch under the dominion of no man. You may treat her as such if you catch her running your sheep or killing your chickens.
--Martin Lindstedt
A Defender of the [Dual-Seedline] Faith
Friday, January 18, 2008
Too funny: A must read
When John and Ed Kundrot quit, so did 25 other members of the Knights Party in the Boston area. Thom Robb, Rachel Pendergraft and a handful of members claimed they were drunks and informers. Soon the lies and gossip spread. Of course this was pure slander, something the Knights Party and their membership does very well. What is funny is, I found links of stories at www.kkk.com that John Kundrot, a so-called informer wrote.
Now, if you ran a pro-white group, would you promote the work of an FBI informer? I am guessing you would not. Of course John Kundrot is no more an FBI informer than Andy Haskins is sober (Indiana State Leader). Below are some links to the "Informer" and his writing.
http://www.kkk.bz/white_teachers_need_not_apply.htm
http://www.kkk.bz/cleaning_up_your_room.htm
Amazing a group would have aritcles posted by a "FBI informer". Of course like I've already stated, John and his family are not informers. This is nothing but pure slander by the Knights Party. This is a common method by them against ex-members who expose them. Below are a list of ex-members who expose them and the lies they tell on them.
Ron Edwards - Robb claims he is a drunk. Ron is not.
rv311 - (not sure of his real name) Robb claims he is a drunk. He is not.
Michael Burks - Randy Gray claims he is gay. He is not.
John Kundrot - Robb claims he is a FBI informer. He is not.
Ed Kundrot - Robb claims he is a drunk. Ed is not.
As you can tell, they lie about all ex-members who expose them.
Now, if you ran a pro-white group, would you promote the work of an FBI informer? I am guessing you would not. Of course John Kundrot is no more an FBI informer than Andy Haskins is sober (Indiana State Leader). Below are some links to the "Informer" and his writing.
http://www.kkk.bz/white_teachers_need_not_apply.htm
http://www.kkk.bz/cleaning_up_your_room.htm
Amazing a group would have aritcles posted by a "FBI informer". Of course like I've already stated, John and his family are not informers. This is nothing but pure slander by the Knights Party. This is a common method by them against ex-members who expose them. Below are a list of ex-members who expose them and the lies they tell on them.
Ron Edwards - Robb claims he is a drunk. Ron is not.
rv311 - (not sure of his real name) Robb claims he is a drunk. He is not.
Michael Burks - Randy Gray claims he is gay. He is not.
John Kundrot - Robb claims he is a FBI informer. He is not.
Ed Kundrot - Robb claims he is a drunk. Ed is not.
As you can tell, they lie about all ex-members who expose them.
"Leadership" of the Knights Party
David Duke – Duke was a conman who led the Knights Party from 1976-1981. He tried to rip Dr. Pierce off in 1976 over a story that Pierce wrote. Duke was known to cheat on his wife and steal movement funds. Tom Metzger was one of the first to openly expose Duke as the fraud he was. In 1981, Duke was caught on film selling his KKK membership to the Imperial Wizard of the Invisible Empire – who was an FBI informer. Duke also admitted to drinking and gambling problems. Much of this was bought and paid for with movement money. Duke was sent to jail a few years back for stealing movement money. He was not set-up by Jews like the Stormfront crew claims. Since that time, Duke fame in the United States has disappeared. That is why he spends all his time in Europe where his lying and conman ways are little known.
Don Black – By age 16, Black was breaking into fellow White Nationalist’s offices stealing membership lists. He along with a group of Duke supporters tried to take over an Island for what they claim was “A white homeland”. In reality, they were setting up a racketeering scam to sell drugs, pimp out hookers and gambling. This illegal made money would fund Duke and his “president” campaign. Black then founded Stormfront and has ripped people off ever since. He backs pro-Jewish groups such as the BNP and the CCC – two groups that allow non-white and Jewish membership.
Thom Robb – Since 1989, Thom “The Robber” has been ripping people off. He has ripped people off with “hot line” fund-raisers and brick scams. During his rule non-whites, FBI informers, reporters and even a dog have all joined. His group does nothing besides throw fliers in people’s yards and run a public access show begging for money. Thom has done away with the ‘Grand Council” and replaced with his family members. The Knights Party is a family run business to simply support Thom and his family. Again, we ask the following questions since Robb claims to be a “spokesman” for our people –
1 – Where was he during Jena 6?
2- Where was he during the Norfolk attack?
3 – Where was he in Knoxville?
4- Where was he at against Pitts?
5- Where was he when his Kansas member was exposed by a reporter?
I guess he was busy counting his $350 bricks and laughing his way to the bank.
Don Black – By age 16, Black was breaking into fellow White Nationalist’s offices stealing membership lists. He along with a group of Duke supporters tried to take over an Island for what they claim was “A white homeland”. In reality, they were setting up a racketeering scam to sell drugs, pimp out hookers and gambling. This illegal made money would fund Duke and his “president” campaign. Black then founded Stormfront and has ripped people off ever since. He backs pro-Jewish groups such as the BNP and the CCC – two groups that allow non-white and Jewish membership.
Thom Robb – Since 1989, Thom “The Robber” has been ripping people off. He has ripped people off with “hot line” fund-raisers and brick scams. During his rule non-whites, FBI informers, reporters and even a dog have all joined. His group does nothing besides throw fliers in people’s yards and run a public access show begging for money. Thom has done away with the ‘Grand Council” and replaced with his family members. The Knights Party is a family run business to simply support Thom and his family. Again, we ask the following questions since Robb claims to be a “spokesman” for our people –
1 – Where was he during Jena 6?
2- Where was he during the Norfolk attack?
3 – Where was he in Knoxville?
4- Where was he at against Pitts?
5- Where was he when his Kansas member was exposed by a reporter?
I guess he was busy counting his $350 bricks and laughing his way to the bank.
Thursday, January 17, 2008
Michael Burks and Pastor Visser expose the Knights Party and their membership
This was the best ANSWP show of all time as far as I'm concerned. Out of all the shows with Bill White and Von, I'd take this show over any of them any day.
The Knights Party and many of their members are exposed with great detail and fact -
1) Learn about the $350 brick scam by Thom Robb
2) Learn all the lies and slander committed by Randy and Jessica Gray
3) Non-white members of the Knights Party
4) FBI membership in the Knights Party
5) News reporters openly join and expose members while the leadership does nothing
6) Mark and Debbie Downey teach Talmudic views over Christian views
7) The Drunk members of the Knights Party are exposed
And so much more. If you have not heard this show, please listen here http://vonbluvens.org/answpsh010808.mp3. People, you need to know the truth about such frauds. These people are not for the white race. Read over this blog. The leadership or members of the Knights Party cannot prove anything here to be a lie or false. Instead, they use slanderous attacks against us. Again, we will offer them $50 for anything they can prove to be false here. So far they have not taken us up on our bet which we challenged them over with two months ago.
Why? Because, they are frauds with no truth in them!
The Knights Party and many of their members are exposed with great detail and fact -
1) Learn about the $350 brick scam by Thom Robb
2) Learn all the lies and slander committed by Randy and Jessica Gray
3) Non-white members of the Knights Party
4) FBI membership in the Knights Party
5) News reporters openly join and expose members while the leadership does nothing
6) Mark and Debbie Downey teach Talmudic views over Christian views
7) The Drunk members of the Knights Party are exposed
And so much more. If you have not heard this show, please listen here http://vonbluvens.org/answpsh010808.mp3. People, you need to know the truth about such frauds. These people are not for the white race. Read over this blog. The leadership or members of the Knights Party cannot prove anything here to be a lie or false. Instead, they use slanderous attacks against us. Again, we will offer them $50 for anything they can prove to be false here. So far they have not taken us up on our bet which we challenged them over with two months ago.
Why? Because, they are frauds with no truth in them!
More proof Randy Gray/Knights Party of Michigan were allies with an FBI informer
Everyone remember all the shit we took for protesting him atKalamazoo.
Frankly, a good number of “white supremacist” events in this countryin the past five years have been organized, initiated, or led by theFBI, and I wonder sometimes how much of the movement is simply agovernment front.
—–
Hate-monitoring group: Turner was FBI informant
By Paul BrooksTimes Herald-RecordJanuary 17, 2008Hal Turner stalked in front of Kingston High School with his neo-Nazisupporters in 2005, tossing white-power taunts at counter-demonstrators.
That was just part of his legacy. He railed against President Bushand Jews, too. He handed out the private addresses of New JerseySupreme Court justices.
But some government agencies are OK if you work for them — and Turnerapparently did.
He was an FBI informant, according to the Southern Poverty LawCenter, a group that monitors hate groups and extremists.
According to the center, hackers confronted Turner on his Web siteJan. 1 and told him they had broken into Turner’s computer server.
What they found were e-mails between Turner and an FBI agent who wasapparently Turner’s handler. The unidentified hackers posted a July 7e-mail to the agent. In it, Turner gave the agent a message fromsomeone threatening to kill Sen. Russ Feingold, Democrat ofWisconsin, the center said in a story on its Web site,www.splcenter.org.
“Once again,” Turner wrote to the agent, “my fierce rhetoric hasserved to flush out a possible crazy.”
When the e-mails hit a neo-Nazi Web site, Turner shut down his ownWeb site. “I hereby separate from the “pro-White” movement. I will nolonger involve myself in any aspect of it,” Turner said.
Yesterday, Turner said the only thing he can say about the FBIallegation is “no comment.” The FBI hasn’t commented, either.
The center’s Mark Potok didn’t object to the FBI’s use of informantsin general. “There is no question these are groups in many, manycases that really do need infiltrating, but … this goes way overthe line. It is like a game of Russian roulette and we are the bait.”
Kingston Mayor Jim Sottile was dumbfounded by the revelation ofTurner’s FBI informant status. “You can’t make this stuff up,” themayor said.
Maybe Turner was acting all the time, Sottile said. “But it wasn’t anact when he had this whole community in an uproar and cost us$80,000.”
Frankly, a good number of “white supremacist” events in this countryin the past five years have been organized, initiated, or led by theFBI, and I wonder sometimes how much of the movement is simply agovernment front.
—–
Hate-monitoring group: Turner was FBI informant
By Paul BrooksTimes Herald-RecordJanuary 17, 2008Hal Turner stalked in front of Kingston High School with his neo-Nazisupporters in 2005, tossing white-power taunts at counter-demonstrators.
That was just part of his legacy. He railed against President Bushand Jews, too. He handed out the private addresses of New JerseySupreme Court justices.
But some government agencies are OK if you work for them — and Turnerapparently did.
He was an FBI informant, according to the Southern Poverty LawCenter, a group that monitors hate groups and extremists.
According to the center, hackers confronted Turner on his Web siteJan. 1 and told him they had broken into Turner’s computer server.
What they found were e-mails between Turner and an FBI agent who wasapparently Turner’s handler. The unidentified hackers posted a July 7e-mail to the agent. In it, Turner gave the agent a message fromsomeone threatening to kill Sen. Russ Feingold, Democrat ofWisconsin, the center said in a story on its Web site,www.splcenter.org.
“Once again,” Turner wrote to the agent, “my fierce rhetoric hasserved to flush out a possible crazy.”
When the e-mails hit a neo-Nazi Web site, Turner shut down his ownWeb site. “I hereby separate from the “pro-White” movement. I will nolonger involve myself in any aspect of it,” Turner said.
Yesterday, Turner said the only thing he can say about the FBIallegation is “no comment.” The FBI hasn’t commented, either.
The center’s Mark Potok didn’t object to the FBI’s use of informantsin general. “There is no question these are groups in many, manycases that really do need infiltrating, but … this goes way overthe line. It is like a game of Russian roulette and we are the bait.”
Kingston Mayor Jim Sottile was dumbfounded by the revelation ofTurner’s FBI informant status. “You can’t make this stuff up,” themayor said.
Maybe Turner was acting all the time, Sottile said. “But it wasn’t anact when he had this whole community in an uproar and cost us$80,000.”
Monday, January 14, 2008
Debbie Downey - KKK slut? Read for yourself
The below comments are not those of the staff here at Christian Frauds. These are taken from http://users.mo-net.com/mlindste/ml062103.html. We are not saying these are true or not. However, please read and make your own mind up.
I'm going to Joplin with my wife and grandchildren in a few minutes, so I don't have time to answer Klunt's counter-accusations today. However, like most of the vermin that I have outed over the years, like Kernal Red Mike Vanderkike, Khazarl Worden, Ed-the-FiBbIe Dog (misnomered Wolfe), and Claire-the-Jackal (also misnomered Wolfe) it is always best to make accusations based upon what elements of truth are available at the time, then have their ego bring them into the trap wherein more can be discovered about their allies, sources of support, etc. In interrogating these Spawn of Satan one doesn't have the power to compel them to attend for interrogation, much less use methods to make them talk. All these degenerates have is their ego, in which they threaten to sue, whine, and then have their fellow kikes have you censored, i.e., jewhooed. Their ego brings them back until such time they realize that they have said way too much.
http://users.mo-net.com/mlindste/tsmc-5.html
I urge people to look at Klunt's jewhoo profile. It indicates quite a bit which Dual-Seedliners will find to be satanic. She definitely has a Genesis 3:15 hatred of us, which, as a spawn of Satan she should have. Genesis 3:15 is the only one of YHWH's Commandments that both the spawn of Satan and the Sons of YHWH both obey. Look at Klunt's article on Stormfront. It has the reek of godless kike satanic femnishevism. I have no doubt that Klunt was quite a number and that she was the sexual mascot of the Washington State KKK, pimped out by her husband the Grand Dragon, until she run off with Downey.
What got me onto this whore's bad side was her obvious hatred of Dual-Seedline and her getting Willie Martin censored off of Andy Blanchardsmamzer-Belialsson Anderson's former Holy_War jewhoogroop after Andy had purged all of the Dual-Seedliners and thus had no use for Willie Martin being a moderator to use as camoflage and cover. Yes, I wanted Willie to leave Belialsson's listserver preferably voluntarily, and was really happy that Klunt pulled a Salome on Willie, but still, only us Dual-Seedliners get to treat fellow Dual-Seedliners mean, NOT some lying satanic whore for her own self-serving satanic purposes.
So when it happened back in March 2002, I immediately asked the Dual-Seedliners in Washington State to dig me up a big steaming stinking pile of shit on Downey and Klunt, and was pretty much gratified to find out that they were regarded as worse than Annaniass and Sapphira. Nobody loves a whore and her monger, especially sanctimonious degenerate ones putting on airs. Needless to say, I got an earful on Klunt and Downey.
Klunt and Downey have no place to go. They are marked and branded as Satan's livestock by the Klan and the Christian Identity devout, doth One- and Dual-Seedliners. The One-Seedliners won't allow these thieving dogs into their flock to pull a Jim&Tammy Bakker on them. They are known to Identity folk as far away as Virginia. The only refuge that they have is playing Identity on ignorant Nazi wannabes, and I'm closing that option.
Klunt's denials mean nothing to me or anyone because Klunt is a liar on the other side. Those that hate me or Dual-Seedline won't believe anything I say, either. In ZOG's final days, truth is altogether a function of what side you are on.
Klunt was smarter in the spring of 2002. When Klunt's biographical history came out, Klunt waited a week, denied none of it, and merely screetched that myself and a few others were bruiting about 'vicious gossip.' Klunt wouldn't come out baring her teeth like a cornered rat unless Klunt felt, correctly, that she is cornered and has no other choice.
OK, Klunt, give it your best shot. I'd advise you not to make a Terms of Service cumplaint to jewhoo like Meggie and Turkic Kikehound did because the one unforgivable thing which will never be forgotten is getting an entire listserver jewhooed. It happens so often; jd_grier is in its third or so new group. ZOGs_War got jewhooed a week or so ago, and you are one of the suspects. Drop the jewhoo bomb of censorship, Klunt, and jew might as well pack it in forever.
By the way, even though Klunt has been e-mailing me directly, good sense in avoiding a jewhoo cumplaint involves NEVER talking directly to these spawn of Satan, as they will call in the ADL/SPLC/FBI and all of ZOG's guard dogs. Klunt is reading every word about herself, as is Downey, and they are shitting bullets. They have but a short time and they have been outed.
--Martin LindstedtBouncer of Baal-Priests and Temple Prostitutes
===========================================
Klunt ("lydia_the_faithful" (lydia@kinsmanredeemer.com) ) sez:
I have heard this garbage from Lindstedt long enough. While I owe NO explanation to Lindstedt, he has perpetuated lies about me ever since I married Mark Downey. So let me come out with the truth in order to expose Linstedt to be as much as a liar as what Jesus claims in John 8:44. And make no mistake about it, Lindstedt is as evil as any jew.
As a good Christian woman, actively dedicated to the furtherance of the White Racialist Movement for close to 30 years, I'm here to tell you that there is no truth to any of what Lindstedt has posted here in his accusations. Now you have my word against his, but we hold ourselves accountable to a local CI community of several different fellowships and I have evidence and witnessness to disprove what he charges here. He does not know us, nor we him. I find it interesting that the men of these groups do not mind the lies and lewdness of this man.
In his 'UNIQUE' style, he continues to build on this story year after year so that it becomes more preposterous with each new embellishment, and then presents them 'to the world' as truth, as if it's some expose'. We've ignored him as long as we could, but this defamation and slander must be answered to.
Lindstedt to JDGrier on another board said: "Klunt even admitted that she snuck in a private message to you demanding censorship and publicly demanding censorship as well."
My Response to the JDGrier: You and I know and nowhere was it stated that I ever sent a private message to you. But Lindstedt will go on believing for YEARS thatI sent you a private message, AND … he'll elaborate on that as time goes on.
Another one of his `truths', Lindstedt says: "on their own little listserver ghettos where their MAIN TOPIC OF CONVERSATION is `Have you seen the awful things that Martin Lindstedt has been saying about us?"
My response: If you ever visited the groups we participate on, you will know that the MAIN TOPIC OF CONVERSATION is the same as most White Racialist groups and on not on what this perverted little man is saying about us.
The censorship happens when he shows his true colors in HOW he says what he is saying. The first post he put on JDGrier is what his fruits are all about. It's full of lies (and I'll remind you slander and defamation), pornographic lewdness and filth. Should that be allowed on Christian sites???? THAT sure sets a good example of what racialist Christianity is all about, huh??? I don't believe that for one moment, and either did the owners of the other Christian listservers. Hence his FILTH is censored.
I find it interesting that Seedliners allow this filth without taking Lindstedt to task for UNCHRISTLIKE behavior. The Christian men I learned from (Butler, Miles, Louis Beam, among many others) in 20+ years of being a Seedliner weren't anything like this. It was this ugly, unchristlike, unaccountable type of behavior exhibited by Lindstedt, Bob Jones, John Knight, Willie Martin that goes dishonorably unchastised by the supposed Christians in their listservers that opened my eyes to the type of men who were teaching AND following Seedline. And I turned my back on Seedline because of that.
So, it is time to expose what Lindstedt is saying here, although it is obvious he is doing it to draw us away from our work from God and to distract others from the important issues of White Racialism. The truth of the matter is that he has a private war going with those who do not adhere to the Seedline doctrine. This character admittedly gets PERSONAL information from 3rd sources (and possibly even more distant sources) and then he puts it all together as if it's fact, elaborating on it as time goes by. ANYONE who dares to disagree with him is put through the same grind of filthy name calling and innuendo presented as truth.
For the record, on MY personal situation, he likes to say he's got a whole slew people who have given him information. But, funny thing … he's never come to US asking US about the reliability of that information. He's never ONCE practiced Christian due process. He's gone to `several' Klansmen (and I find THAT quite interesting, because I know the history of Badynski's activism and the condition of the NW Knights' membership when I left Badynski). He's also found his sources in a few of the non Seedline group out here … for which there IS a handful of people here that was quite ticked off at Mark and other church members for holding a bad leader accountable for his unrepentant and overt sins. There WAS gossip about Mark and me from 2 women in that group of ticked off people, but when I heard about the gossip, I approached BOTH women in a Christlike manner and told them the chronology of events and reason I was compelled to leave Badynski.
Apparently, the men of Seedline want to believe the gossip of 2 women. So be it. I find that hilarious, given their propensity to discount and discredit women (especially those who act in a Christlike manner). My secular divorce was pursued ONLY after 2 years of attempts of reconciliation when I found Badynski had been having long-term promiscious internet relationships. I have several hundred e-mails to prove that little scandal. In that time I was counseled by SEVERAL elders, 3 pastors, 2 pastor's wives and 1 secular professional counselor. My secular divorce was pursued AFTER approval from all involved AND at Badynski's bidding. My courtship with Downey occurred AFTER the secular divorce was FINAL and it was done with much counseling, thought and prayer. If men and women don't understand that and wish two faithful servants of the Lord happiness, then that is their issue with God. But they will not be running MY life.
Now my word against Lindstedt's? Oh, you bet. But, accountability will remain where our Lord and Master is concerned. Lindstedt will have his day of judgment, and so will all the other men on these lists who have not taken him to task for his unchristlike actions. And I will continue to expose this filthy liar and challenge the TRUE MEN OF GOD to chastise his filth and unchristlike behavior.
Now, for a couple comments about his post. My comments are in all caps, not for yelling, but to differentiate his comments from mine.
From: "Martin Lindstedt" Date: Fri Jun 20, 2003 2:47 am Subject: Regarding Richard Niemela and sundry ZOGite baal-priestsFrom: To: mlindste@m... Cc: mlindste@j... Bcc: Subject: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:44:54 -0400
Downey and his current female fixture, Klunt, has the disadvantage of their past history of whore-dumb and mongering of said whore in that Klunt used to be the wife of the Washington State Grand Dragon and Downey stole the Klavern's sexual mascot, i.e., Klailiff, or as I call her, Klunt. So they don't play well amongst the locals who know their past history and took great care to inform myself and others within Identity, especially the Dual-Seedline variant, of the history of these Annaniasses and Sapphiras. So what they do is promulgate their bastardized version of what they call Identity
LYDIA: MY ANSWER TO YOU IS STATED ABOVE AS TO WHY MY DIVORCE WAS PURSUED AND MY ACTIONS TO RESOLVE MY MARITAL PROBLEMS. CONTINUE TO LIE ON YAHOO GROUPS AND IT WILL BE LABELED DEFAMATION.
Actually reading Downey's witless drivel, especially, 'Leaderless Identity,' one sees an immense Genesis 3:15-inspired hatred for Dual-Seedline orthodoxy since such has no place for the likes of Downey and Klunt. Yet Downey hates the One-Seedliners, like Pete Peters as well,
LYDIA: THE FRUIT OF HATRED COMES FROM YOU, BUDDY. MARK HAS FELLOWSHIPPED WITH SEEDLINERS FOR OVER 20 YEARS NOW. YOU HATE THE FACT HE DOESN'T TEACH IT.
because Peters is successful and has a following amongst the One- Seedliners, a following that Downey and Klunt shall never attain because of their open greed and avarice.
LYDIA: WHAT IS YOUR PROOF OF YOUR CLAIM OF OUR 'OPEN GREED AND AVARICE'? MAKE IT GOOD NOW, BUDDY.
consequently, they cannot and will not attend any One-Seedline gatherings where they are known & notorious.
LYDIA: AGAIN, LINDSTEDT, ANOTHER ARGUMENT BASED ON A BAD ASSUMPTION. BASED ON WHAT YOU WERE POSTING ON JDGRIER, YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY REFERRING TO THE LAST VISIT BY PETERS. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO CLUE WHY WE WEREN'T THERE, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ABOVE CHARGE.
I am not a pastor, I am a politician and enforcer. I do not prosletize for Dual-Seedline doxology. Yet I would insist that anyone calling themselves Identity practice Identity, preferably Dual-Seedline Orthodoxy.
--Martin Lindstedt A Defender of the (DS-CI) Faith
TO THE SMALL g god LINDSTEDT: YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT WHAT TRUE CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT, AND I'LL BET YOUR RESPONSE WILL JUST BE THE FRUIT OF WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART AND WHAT YOU THINK A CHRISTLIKE MENTALITY IS: FILTH, LIES, PERVERSION.
YOUR LIES ARE HEREBY EXPOSED. I KNOW WHAT YOUR GAME IS, AND THAT IS THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY JUDGED ME. WHATEVER EVIDENCE I BRING TO THIS WILL BE TWISTED AND DISCOUNTED AS YOU TRY TO TAKE MY TIME AWAY FROM GOD'S PURPOSE TO COUNTER YOUR SORRY, COUNTLESS LITTLE LIES. YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH CHRISTIAN JURISPRUDENCE IN THIS WAR OF YOURS, AND FOR THAT YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
.
I'm going to Joplin with my wife and grandchildren in a few minutes, so I don't have time to answer Klunt's counter-accusations today. However, like most of the vermin that I have outed over the years, like Kernal Red Mike Vanderkike, Khazarl Worden, Ed-the-FiBbIe Dog (misnomered Wolfe), and Claire-the-Jackal (also misnomered Wolfe) it is always best to make accusations based upon what elements of truth are available at the time, then have their ego bring them into the trap wherein more can be discovered about their allies, sources of support, etc. In interrogating these Spawn of Satan one doesn't have the power to compel them to attend for interrogation, much less use methods to make them talk. All these degenerates have is their ego, in which they threaten to sue, whine, and then have their fellow kikes have you censored, i.e., jewhooed. Their ego brings them back until such time they realize that they have said way too much.
http://users.mo-net.com/mlindste/tsmc-5.html
I urge people to look at Klunt's jewhoo profile. It indicates quite a bit which Dual-Seedliners will find to be satanic. She definitely has a Genesis 3:15 hatred of us, which, as a spawn of Satan she should have. Genesis 3:15 is the only one of YHWH's Commandments that both the spawn of Satan and the Sons of YHWH both obey. Look at Klunt's article on Stormfront. It has the reek of godless kike satanic femnishevism. I have no doubt that Klunt was quite a number and that she was the sexual mascot of the Washington State KKK, pimped out by her husband the Grand Dragon, until she run off with Downey.
What got me onto this whore's bad side was her obvious hatred of Dual-Seedline and her getting Willie Martin censored off of Andy Blanchardsmamzer-Belialsson Anderson's former Holy_War jewhoogroop after Andy had purged all of the Dual-Seedliners and thus had no use for Willie Martin being a moderator to use as camoflage and cover. Yes, I wanted Willie to leave Belialsson's listserver preferably voluntarily, and was really happy that Klunt pulled a Salome on Willie, but still, only us Dual-Seedliners get to treat fellow Dual-Seedliners mean, NOT some lying satanic whore for her own self-serving satanic purposes.
So when it happened back in March 2002, I immediately asked the Dual-Seedliners in Washington State to dig me up a big steaming stinking pile of shit on Downey and Klunt, and was pretty much gratified to find out that they were regarded as worse than Annaniass and Sapphira. Nobody loves a whore and her monger, especially sanctimonious degenerate ones putting on airs. Needless to say, I got an earful on Klunt and Downey.
Klunt and Downey have no place to go. They are marked and branded as Satan's livestock by the Klan and the Christian Identity devout, doth One- and Dual-Seedliners. The One-Seedliners won't allow these thieving dogs into their flock to pull a Jim&Tammy Bakker on them. They are known to Identity folk as far away as Virginia. The only refuge that they have is playing Identity on ignorant Nazi wannabes, and I'm closing that option.
Klunt's denials mean nothing to me or anyone because Klunt is a liar on the other side. Those that hate me or Dual-Seedline won't believe anything I say, either. In ZOG's final days, truth is altogether a function of what side you are on.
Klunt was smarter in the spring of 2002. When Klunt's biographical history came out, Klunt waited a week, denied none of it, and merely screetched that myself and a few others were bruiting about 'vicious gossip.' Klunt wouldn't come out baring her teeth like a cornered rat unless Klunt felt, correctly, that she is cornered and has no other choice.
OK, Klunt, give it your best shot. I'd advise you not to make a Terms of Service cumplaint to jewhoo like Meggie and Turkic Kikehound did because the one unforgivable thing which will never be forgotten is getting an entire listserver jewhooed. It happens so often; jd_grier is in its third or so new group. ZOGs_War got jewhooed a week or so ago, and you are one of the suspects. Drop the jewhoo bomb of censorship, Klunt, and jew might as well pack it in forever.
By the way, even though Klunt has been e-mailing me directly, good sense in avoiding a jewhoo cumplaint involves NEVER talking directly to these spawn of Satan, as they will call in the ADL/SPLC/FBI and all of ZOG's guard dogs. Klunt is reading every word about herself, as is Downey, and they are shitting bullets. They have but a short time and they have been outed.
--Martin LindstedtBouncer of Baal-Priests and Temple Prostitutes
===========================================
Klunt ("lydia_the_faithful" (lydia@kinsmanredeemer.com) ) sez:
I have heard this garbage from Lindstedt long enough. While I owe NO explanation to Lindstedt, he has perpetuated lies about me ever since I married Mark Downey. So let me come out with the truth in order to expose Linstedt to be as much as a liar as what Jesus claims in John 8:44. And make no mistake about it, Lindstedt is as evil as any jew.
As a good Christian woman, actively dedicated to the furtherance of the White Racialist Movement for close to 30 years, I'm here to tell you that there is no truth to any of what Lindstedt has posted here in his accusations. Now you have my word against his, but we hold ourselves accountable to a local CI community of several different fellowships and I have evidence and witnessness to disprove what he charges here. He does not know us, nor we him. I find it interesting that the men of these groups do not mind the lies and lewdness of this man.
In his 'UNIQUE' style, he continues to build on this story year after year so that it becomes more preposterous with each new embellishment, and then presents them 'to the world' as truth, as if it's some expose'. We've ignored him as long as we could, but this defamation and slander must be answered to.
Lindstedt to JDGrier on another board said: "Klunt even admitted that she snuck in a private message to you demanding censorship and publicly demanding censorship as well."
My Response to the JDGrier: You and I know and nowhere was it stated that I ever sent a private message to you. But Lindstedt will go on believing for YEARS thatI sent you a private message, AND … he'll elaborate on that as time goes on.
Another one of his `truths', Lindstedt says: "on their own little listserver ghettos where their MAIN TOPIC OF CONVERSATION is `Have you seen the awful things that Martin Lindstedt has been saying about us?"
My response: If you ever visited the groups we participate on, you will know that the MAIN TOPIC OF CONVERSATION is the same as most White Racialist groups and on not on what this perverted little man is saying about us.
The censorship happens when he shows his true colors in HOW he says what he is saying. The first post he put on JDGrier is what his fruits are all about. It's full of lies (and I'll remind you slander and defamation), pornographic lewdness and filth. Should that be allowed on Christian sites???? THAT sure sets a good example of what racialist Christianity is all about, huh??? I don't believe that for one moment, and either did the owners of the other Christian listservers. Hence his FILTH is censored.
I find it interesting that Seedliners allow this filth without taking Lindstedt to task for UNCHRISTLIKE behavior. The Christian men I learned from (Butler, Miles, Louis Beam, among many others) in 20+ years of being a Seedliner weren't anything like this. It was this ugly, unchristlike, unaccountable type of behavior exhibited by Lindstedt, Bob Jones, John Knight, Willie Martin that goes dishonorably unchastised by the supposed Christians in their listservers that opened my eyes to the type of men who were teaching AND following Seedline. And I turned my back on Seedline because of that.
So, it is time to expose what Lindstedt is saying here, although it is obvious he is doing it to draw us away from our work from God and to distract others from the important issues of White Racialism. The truth of the matter is that he has a private war going with those who do not adhere to the Seedline doctrine. This character admittedly gets PERSONAL information from 3rd sources (and possibly even more distant sources) and then he puts it all together as if it's fact, elaborating on it as time goes by. ANYONE who dares to disagree with him is put through the same grind of filthy name calling and innuendo presented as truth.
For the record, on MY personal situation, he likes to say he's got a whole slew people who have given him information. But, funny thing … he's never come to US asking US about the reliability of that information. He's never ONCE practiced Christian due process. He's gone to `several' Klansmen (and I find THAT quite interesting, because I know the history of Badynski's activism and the condition of the NW Knights' membership when I left Badynski). He's also found his sources in a few of the non Seedline group out here … for which there IS a handful of people here that was quite ticked off at Mark and other church members for holding a bad leader accountable for his unrepentant and overt sins. There WAS gossip about Mark and me from 2 women in that group of ticked off people, but when I heard about the gossip, I approached BOTH women in a Christlike manner and told them the chronology of events and reason I was compelled to leave Badynski.
Apparently, the men of Seedline want to believe the gossip of 2 women. So be it. I find that hilarious, given their propensity to discount and discredit women (especially those who act in a Christlike manner). My secular divorce was pursued ONLY after 2 years of attempts of reconciliation when I found Badynski had been having long-term promiscious internet relationships. I have several hundred e-mails to prove that little scandal. In that time I was counseled by SEVERAL elders, 3 pastors, 2 pastor's wives and 1 secular professional counselor. My secular divorce was pursued AFTER approval from all involved AND at Badynski's bidding. My courtship with Downey occurred AFTER the secular divorce was FINAL and it was done with much counseling, thought and prayer. If men and women don't understand that and wish two faithful servants of the Lord happiness, then that is their issue with God. But they will not be running MY life.
Now my word against Lindstedt's? Oh, you bet. But, accountability will remain where our Lord and Master is concerned. Lindstedt will have his day of judgment, and so will all the other men on these lists who have not taken him to task for his unchristlike actions. And I will continue to expose this filthy liar and challenge the TRUE MEN OF GOD to chastise his filth and unchristlike behavior.
Now, for a couple comments about his post. My comments are in all caps, not for yelling, but to differentiate his comments from mine.
From: "Martin Lindstedt" Date: Fri Jun 20, 2003 2:47 am Subject: Regarding Richard Niemela and sundry ZOGite baal-priestsFrom: To: mlindste@m... Cc: mlindste@j... Bcc: Subject: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:44:54 -0400
Downey and his current female fixture, Klunt, has the disadvantage of their past history of whore-dumb and mongering of said whore in that Klunt used to be the wife of the Washington State Grand Dragon and Downey stole the Klavern's sexual mascot, i.e., Klailiff, or as I call her, Klunt. So they don't play well amongst the locals who know their past history and took great care to inform myself and others within Identity, especially the Dual-Seedline variant, of the history of these Annaniasses and Sapphiras. So what they do is promulgate their bastardized version of what they call Identity
LYDIA: MY ANSWER TO YOU IS STATED ABOVE AS TO WHY MY DIVORCE WAS PURSUED AND MY ACTIONS TO RESOLVE MY MARITAL PROBLEMS. CONTINUE TO LIE ON YAHOO GROUPS AND IT WILL BE LABELED DEFAMATION.
Actually reading Downey's witless drivel, especially, 'Leaderless Identity,' one sees an immense Genesis 3:15-inspired hatred for Dual-Seedline orthodoxy since such has no place for the likes of Downey and Klunt. Yet Downey hates the One-Seedliners, like Pete Peters as well,
LYDIA: THE FRUIT OF HATRED COMES FROM YOU, BUDDY. MARK HAS FELLOWSHIPPED WITH SEEDLINERS FOR OVER 20 YEARS NOW. YOU HATE THE FACT HE DOESN'T TEACH IT.
because Peters is successful and has a following amongst the One- Seedliners, a following that Downey and Klunt shall never attain because of their open greed and avarice.
LYDIA: WHAT IS YOUR PROOF OF YOUR CLAIM OF OUR 'OPEN GREED AND AVARICE'? MAKE IT GOOD NOW, BUDDY.
consequently, they cannot and will not attend any One-Seedline gatherings where they are known & notorious.
LYDIA: AGAIN, LINDSTEDT, ANOTHER ARGUMENT BASED ON A BAD ASSUMPTION. BASED ON WHAT YOU WERE POSTING ON JDGRIER, YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY REFERRING TO THE LAST VISIT BY PETERS. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO CLUE WHY WE WEREN'T THERE, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ABOVE CHARGE.
I am not a pastor, I am a politician and enforcer. I do not prosletize for Dual-Seedline doxology. Yet I would insist that anyone calling themselves Identity practice Identity, preferably Dual-Seedline Orthodoxy.
--Martin Lindstedt A Defender of the (DS-CI) Faith
TO THE SMALL g god LINDSTEDT: YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT WHAT TRUE CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT, AND I'LL BET YOUR RESPONSE WILL JUST BE THE FRUIT OF WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART AND WHAT YOU THINK A CHRISTLIKE MENTALITY IS: FILTH, LIES, PERVERSION.
YOUR LIES ARE HEREBY EXPOSED. I KNOW WHAT YOUR GAME IS, AND THAT IS THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY JUDGED ME. WHATEVER EVIDENCE I BRING TO THIS WILL BE TWISTED AND DISCOUNTED AS YOU TRY TO TAKE MY TIME AWAY FROM GOD'S PURPOSE TO COUNTER YOUR SORRY, COUNTLESS LITTLE LIES. YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH CHRISTIAN JURISPRUDENCE IN THIS WAR OF YOURS, AND FOR THAT YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
.
Randy Gray's pal Hal Turner sent emails to the FEDS
What a shock a friend of Randy Gray turned out to be working with FEDS. Randy himself, has posted other pro-white people's college information and home addresses on websites. In the past, Randy has stood arm and arm with Hal Turner. Below is proof of Hal, Gray's friend, leaking information to the FEDS.
Found on Pastebin
Yes, I am aware you no longer have the Blackberry and that you don’t have a server growing out of your ass.
I made the “you need to write me back” remark because after what I’ve done the past five days, some extremely powerful people are looking to jam me up. I intend to make certain I cross all the “T’s” and dot all the “i’s”.
The White House is livid over my interference with the President’s “legacy” immigration bill. My name was dropped in the Presidents ear by many Senators who laid blame for changing their vote on my act of “intimidation.” I have confirmation from more than one source that my name crossed shrub’s (Bush) lips several times about me being . . . . . ready for this . . . . . an “insolent mother fucker who dared to interfere.”
Things are going to get very serious for me over my single handedly stopping the immigration bill. I can;t let some asshole make an illegal threat on my web site, then get jammed up for “not reporting.”
Thank God some of the Marines at the White House feed me info. You’d be shocked what they hear standing there opening doors all day.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Haug, Stephen M.”
Date: Monday, July 2, 2007 7:23 am
Subject: RE: Threat to Kill Senator Feingold of Wisconsin on July 4
To: Hal Turner
> Got it thanks. I think you forget that I no longer have my
> blackberry and thus no real-time link to the email. I have to be
> logged on to a server to access it. As you know, I don;t have
> one growing out of my ass…Some emails require no comment…
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Hal Turner [mailto: \n secret12@optonline.net This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it ]
> Sent: Sun 7/1/2007 4:53 PM
> To: \n shaug@fbi.gov This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it ; Len Nerbetski
> Subject: Threat to Kill Senator Feingold of Wisconsin on July 4
>
>
> Guys:
> I wrote an opinion piece on my site today in which I opine about
> 46 US Senators who I believe should be removed from office on
> July 4 for betraying their constituents and this nation.
>
> An anonymous person, posting on the outside, third-party visitor
> comments area of my web site wrote:
>
> “im going to kill senator feingold on july 4th. may thomas
> paine smile upon me and alexander hamilton bless my cause.
> praise the lord and pass the ammunition.”
>
> As you are probably aware, Feingold is from Wisconsin.
>
> The posting was made today, July 1, 2007 at 4:34 PM EST from IP
> address 128.104.230.228 which comes back to the University of
> Wisconsin.
> The posting can be viewed by the general public at:
> http://www.haloscan.com/comments/halturner/FacingOffWith46/#236927
>
> Once again, my fierce rhetoric has served to flush out a
> possible crazy.
>
> Please acknowledge receipt of this warning. Of late, both of
> you have become remiss in acknowledging e-mails.
>
> HT
>
>
>
Found on Pastebin
Yes, I am aware you no longer have the Blackberry and that you don’t have a server growing out of your ass.
I made the “you need to write me back” remark because after what I’ve done the past five days, some extremely powerful people are looking to jam me up. I intend to make certain I cross all the “T’s” and dot all the “i’s”.
The White House is livid over my interference with the President’s “legacy” immigration bill. My name was dropped in the Presidents ear by many Senators who laid blame for changing their vote on my act of “intimidation.” I have confirmation from more than one source that my name crossed shrub’s (Bush) lips several times about me being . . . . . ready for this . . . . . an “insolent mother fucker who dared to interfere.”
Things are going to get very serious for me over my single handedly stopping the immigration bill. I can;t let some asshole make an illegal threat on my web site, then get jammed up for “not reporting.”
Thank God some of the Marines at the White House feed me info. You’d be shocked what they hear standing there opening doors all day.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Haug, Stephen M.”
Date: Monday, July 2, 2007 7:23 am
Subject: RE: Threat to Kill Senator Feingold of Wisconsin on July 4
To: Hal Turner
> Got it thanks. I think you forget that I no longer have my
> blackberry and thus no real-time link to the email. I have to be
> logged on to a server to access it. As you know, I don;t have
> one growing out of my ass…Some emails require no comment…
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Hal Turner [mailto: \n secret12@optonline.net This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it ]
> Sent: Sun 7/1/2007 4:53 PM
> To: \n shaug@fbi.gov This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it ; Len Nerbetski
> Subject: Threat to Kill Senator Feingold of Wisconsin on July 4
>
>
> Guys:
> I wrote an opinion piece on my site today in which I opine about
> 46 US Senators who I believe should be removed from office on
> July 4 for betraying their constituents and this nation.
>
> An anonymous person, posting on the outside, third-party visitor
> comments area of my web site wrote:
>
> “im going to kill senator feingold on july 4th. may thomas
> paine smile upon me and alexander hamilton bless my cause.
> praise the lord and pass the ammunition.”
>
> As you are probably aware, Feingold is from Wisconsin.
>
> The posting was made today, July 1, 2007 at 4:34 PM EST from IP
> address 128.104.230.228 which comes back to the University of
> Wisconsin.
> The posting can be viewed by the general public at:
> http://www.haloscan.com/comments/halturner/FacingOffWith46/#236927
>
> Once again, my fierce rhetoric has served to flush out a
> possible crazy.
>
> Please acknowledge receipt of this warning. Of late, both of
> you have become remiss in acknowledging e-mails.
>
> HT
>
>
>
Thursday, January 10, 2008
Non-White allies of the Knights Party
The above picture is that of Sonny Landham. He is of American Indian blood. His bio is here, http://www.sonnylandham.com/bio.cfm. Landham also made some porn movies back in the late 1970's. He is a current member for Gordon Baum's CCC.Baum and his group are close friends of Thom Robb. Robb has been on their radio show in the past and has even allowed them to attend and speak at his railles.
When did the Klan become pro-non-white? When did the Klan tolerate porn stars? This never took place in Klan history until Thom Robb gave it the okay.
Yes ladies and gentleman, Thom Robb is allies with trash. Ex Asian porn stars are nice allies in the eyes of Thom Robb. And you still think Robb is a good Christian?
Owner of www.kkklan.com calls Thom Robb a conman
1950's-90's
Calling card, large "KKK" in red. Solicits joining Thom Robb's "klan". Thom Robb is a notorious con artist who impersonates the Klan. ...www.kkklan.com/modern2.htm - 50k - Cached - Similar pages
Calling card, large "KKK" in red. Solicits joining Thom Robb's "klan". Thom Robb is a notorious con artist who impersonates the Klan. ...www.kkklan.com/modern2.htm - 50k - Cached - Similar pages
Thom Robb's mentor - an odd ball Commie who hung out with Scientology people
For years Thom Robb studied under the (ex)Commie, Kenneth Goff. This alone is enough proof of why Robb should never be trusted. Not only was Goff a commie, the man seemed to be very mentally ill. He claims to have wrote books that he had nothing to do with. Below is some fun facts about the mental state of this man. Taken from http://www.cesnur.org/2005/brainwash_13.htm.
Still mentioned today, and the subject matter of considerable controversy, is a document published in the 1950s, when, one after the other, several different editions were published of a book known as Brain-Washing: A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook of Psychopolitics. The book is, ostensibly, a summary of manuals circulating in the Soviet Union, allegedly written by the chief of the secret police, Lavrenti Beria (1899-1953).
The text opens with a discourse by Beria addressed to “American students at the Lenin University ”. It goes on by stating some key ideas of dialectical and historical materialism, before examining “psychopolitics” in itself. It suggests creating in the victims an “artificial exhaustion” through drugs and pain, before “implanting” communist doctrines through hypnosis. The process is presented under the name PDH, “pain-drug hypnosis”[1]. In the 1950s a frequent objection to brainwashing theories was that, according to academic hypnologists, ultimately an individual in hypnotic trance would not perform acts radically contrary to his or her will and best interests. The “Manual” claims that this objection in fact comes from communist propaganda: “It is in the interest of Psychopolitics that population be told that an hypnotized person will not do anything against his actual will, will not commit immoral acts, and will not act so as to endanger himself. While this may be true of light, parlour hypnotism, it certainly is not true of commands implanted with the use of electric shocks, drugs, or heavy punishment”[2]. The booklet then relates brainwashing to a larger picture, where two main dangers for the communists are indicated: American individualism (to be substituted, through brainwashing, by a form of group thinking), and religion.
The “Manual” was reprinted some twenty times, and quoted even more often; it played an important role in the discussion on brainwashing. The question of its authorship remains controversial. A curious character, Kenneth Goff (1909-1972), constantly claimed that he was the one who compiled it. Goff was a member of the U.S. Communist Party in the 1903s. He later converted to Fundamentalist Protestantism, only to evolve later towards anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism, and Identity Churches [3]. In the 1940s and 1950s Goff published several autobiographical books and pamphlets, where he graphically described both his conversion and his previous “conditioning” as an American communist by Soviet agents[4]. In 1955, the “Manual” (without mentioning Goff at all) was published by the Church of Scientology, with the indication “Published as a public service by the Church of Scientology”, and with an “editorial note” signed by a professor Charles Stickley, about whom no information is available (in all the other editions, there is also an “editorial note”, but Goff is indicated as its author)[5]. Both the early Goff edition, and the edition published by Scientology, include references to Christian Science and Dianetics as groups that Communist psychopolitics should try to discredit; the Goff version also includes Pentecostals, not mentioned in the Scientology edition.
Critics of Scientology have no doubt that the book was authored by Lafayette Ronald (“L. Ron”) Hubbard (1911-1986), the founder of both Dianetics and Scientology. For example, Bent Corydon is very positive when he claims, based on a statement by Hubbard’s son L. Ron Hubbard Jr. (Ron DeWolf, 1934-1991), that “Dad wrote every word of it”, having apparently been influenced by John Sanborn (1922-) who at the time assisted Hubbard in editing his works[6]. (Subsequently, DeWolf was to state under oath that Corydon had incorrectly quoted many of his statements.) This version has been repeated by countless anti-Scientology works, and has been even quoted as a “confession” by Hubbard that he did indeed know about brainwashing.
In fact, it is alleged by critics, Hubbard discussed brainwashing in several other works, thus “confessing” that he was capable of using it. The latter argument is somewhat contradictory. In fact, Hubbard’s works expose brainwashing as something that should not be practiced, not only for moral reasons, but also because, in Hubbard’s system, brainwashing represents all that Scientology regards as reprehensible and harmful in modern psychiatry. The practice of brainwashing could only end up in disaster, and convert those subject to it into pathetic victims, as such of no much use to any organization[7].
Scientology critics are often confusing two different meanings of the word “brainwashing”, the first referred to techniques using drugs and physical violence in connection with “hypnosis”, and the second to religious indoctrination. The word used, “brainwashing”, is the same, but the meaning is different. Hubbard regards “brainwashing”, in the first meaning, as something very much real (but to be avoided and exposed). In the second meaning, on the other hand, “brainwashing” for Hubbard is just another false argument used by critics in order to assault Scientology and other religions.
Be it as it may be, is Hubbard in any sense the “author” of the “Manual” as published by Scientology in 1955? It is true that the text does include a reference to Dianetics, and paragraphs germane to Scientology’s well-known concerns about psychiatry in general. Goff and his organization, the Soldiers of the Cross, always maintained that the compiler was none else than Goff himself, on the basis of information acquired when he was a Communist[8]. It is also true that what seems to be the earliest Goff edition of the “Manual” has no date[9], and there is no conclusive evidence of whether it had been published before, or after, Scientology’s edition of 1955. On the other hand, several themes about Communist “conditioning” were developed in works by Goff certainly published before 1955[10].
The argument used by some Scientology critics, that Goff died in 1943 (and could not have known about later development, nor as a consequence could he have written the book), is simply wrong. Goff remained active in the US right-wing subculture until the early 1970s, and in fact died in 1972. Those concluding that Goff is the “author” of the book should, on the other hand, face the objection that the style of the “Manual” is more sophisticated if compared with the somewhat crude style of Goff’s earlier works.
Hubbard’s version is told in two technical bulletins of 13 and 19 December 1955. According to the second bulletin, “two manuscripts” were “left at the front desk [of our Phoenix office] with the request that they be mailed back to their owner” (i.e. “Charles Stickley”), and “we are not sure exactly from whom these came”. Subsequently, according to the first bulletin, “it was discovered that a book called Psychopolitics (spelled with a K) is in the Library of Congress. It is in German. It was written by a man called Paul Fadkeller, and was published in Berlin in 1947. Although I may be misinformed, Hubbard goes on to say, and definitely do not read German, this book [the “manual”] is probably the Russian translation”. In the second bulletin, Hubbard also refers that he “read it off onto a tape, compiling the two manuals, and removing from them some of their very verbose nomenclature”. He decided to publish the text for the benefit of the auditors who may face victims of brainwashing[11].
“Paul Fadkeller” is, in fact, neo-Kantian German philosopher Paul Feldkeller (1889-1972). His text “published in Berlin in 1947” [12], a copy of which is in fact at the Library of Congress in Washington D.C., shares with the “Manual” only the first part of the title and the use (but with a quite different meaning) of the word “psychopolitics”. Hubbard’s story, apart form any controversy, is compatible with those who said that he, in fact, read the text onto a tape.
How, however, can Hubbard’s and Goff’s stories be reconciled? Perhaps, both may be right and combining their versions is not impossible. If one compares the “Manual” with the respective works of Hubbard and Goff (obviously, two very different authors), in both cases the style and the ideas are quite different[13]. It may perhaps be possible to solve this problem by suggesting, on the basis of the US government’s and the CIA’s interest in brainwashing in general in the 1950s, that the text was compiled by some governmental agency of the on the basis of a variety of sources (Soviet and US Communist documents, texts on psychopolitics in general, exposes of brainwashing allegedly practiced by both Nazis and Communists). This agency would then have sent the text more or less anonymously to several different organizations (Scientology, Goff’s group, and perhaps others), with sentences which would have captured their attention (including, for Scientology, a specific reference to Dianetics), in the hope that they will publish it[14]. This would confirm both the interest in brainwashing by the CIA and other U.S. governmental agencies during the Cold War and their dissemination of false documents about “Communist brainwashing” through a variety of sources.
[1] Brain-Washing: A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook of Psychopolitics, Los Angeles : The American St. Hill Organization, 1955, p. 36.
[2] Ibid., pp. 32-33.
[3] On Goff see the entry “Kenneth Goff” in Jeffrey Kaplan, Encyclopedia of White Power. A Sourcebook on the Radical Racist Right, Walnut Creek-Lanham ( Maryland )- New York - Oxford : Altamira Press, 2000, pp. 120-122.
[4] See, for example, Kenneth Goff, This is My Story: Confessions of Stalin’s Agent, Englewood ( Colorado ): The Author, 1948; Idem, The Red Betrayal of Youth, Englewood ( Colorado ): by the Author, 1948; Idem, Strange Fire, Englewood (Colorado): The Author, 1954.
[5] In 1970, Morris Kominsky (1901-1975), a left-wing activist and one-time candidate of the US Communist Party for governor of Rhode Island (in 1938), published a book whose intent was to expose the pathological anti-communism of the American right (The Hoaxers: Plain Liars, Fancy Liars, and Damned Liars, Boston: Branden Press, 1970). There, at pages 537-586, Kominsky published a detailed analysis of the “Manual”, whose aim was to show that it could not have been written in the Soviet Union. Kominsky had no doubt that the author was Goff, and published (ibid., pp. 547-549) the text of an interview with Goff himself. Goff claimed to have distributed 1,000 mimeographed copies of the “Manual” certainly before 1955, and even offered a $500 reward for any information about the mysterious Mr. Stickley.
[6] See Bent Corydon - L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?, Lyle Stuart Inc., Secaucus (New Jersey) 1987, pp. 101-111.
[7] In another text by L.R. Hubbard, included in All About Radiation (Man’s Inhumanity to Man) by a nuclear physicist and a medical doctor, London : Hubbard Association of Scientologists International, 1957, pp. 62-63, brainwashing is again connected with “torture”, and it is stated that the Soviets knew it since 1927-1928. It is also noted that “brainwashing was attempted on Mindzensky [sic]. It didn’t work but, for a moment, he quivered and wavered at his trial” – a reference to Roman Catholic Hungarian Cardinal József Mindszenty (1892-1975). In a technical bulletin of July 22, 1956, Hubbard wrote that “We can brainwash faster that the Russians. 20 secs to total amnesia against three years to slightly confused loyalty” (Idem., The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology. Vol. II, 1954-1956, reprint, Copenhagen - Los Angeles : Scientology Publications, 1986, p. 474). The context, however, is an invitation to Scientology auditors to keep a higher moral standard, according to which not all what is technically possible should be practiced. However, in this case also, the effect of brainwashing is “total amnesia”, confirming that Hubbard used the work “brainwashing” with a meaning different from the prevailing literature of that time (“total amnesia” being something different from the conversion to new ideas).
[8] See Colonel Gordon “Jack” Mohr, “Editorial’s Note”, in the version he edited of Brain-Washing (Mind-Changing). A Synthesis of a Russian Textbook on Mass Mind-Control (Psychopolitics), Phoenix (Arizona): Lord’s Covenant Church-America’s Promise Broadcasts, 1982, pp. 4-5. Mohr, who was close to Goff for several years and part of the same subculture, is still certain to this date that “Hubbard did not write the book” (letter by G.J. Mohr to M. Introvigne, June 5, 2001).
[9] See K. Goff, Brainwashing. A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics, Englewood (Colorado): Kenneth Goff, n.d.
[10] See for example K. Goff, This is My Story. Confessions of Stalin’s Agent, op. cit.
[11] L. Ron Hubbard, The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology. Volume II: 1954-1956, reprint, op. cit., pp. 309-310 and pp. 312-313. In Corydon’s book, L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?, op. cit., p. 103, there is an allusion to the Feldkeller reference as follows: “Ron Jr.: (…) Years later, they [the Scientologists] snuck it into the Library of Congress, and somebody else came by, and said ‘Oh, look, it was found in the Library of Congress!’, which is a lot of baloney”. The problem here, however, is that the Library of Congress does not own either the Scientology or the Goff version of the “Manual”. It owns, on the other hand, the work by Feldkeller, quite well-known by the scholars of this German philosopher, and by no means “snuck” by Scientologists into the Library.
[12] See also Idem., Psycho-Politik. Zur Demokratisierung, politischen Erziehung und Säuberung, Berlin : Chronos-Verlag, 1947, where at pp. 106-110 there is a definition of “Psychopolitics”, quite different from the one found in the “Manual”.
[13] Some have remarked that «pain-drug hypnosis» and at least one other expression, «thinkingness,» are only found in the «Manual» and in Scientology publications. «Pain-drug hypnosis» is mentioned only in the «Manual,» in Scientology works, and in Goff (after the 1950s): but did Hubbard and Goff derived it from the «Manual» or viceversa? For «thinkingness,» however, there are pre-Hubbard precedents. On the other hand, L. R. Hubbard's position on hypnosis in his 1951 Science of Survival. Simplified, Faster Dianetic Techniques (Hubbard Dianetic Foundation, Wichita 1951, pp. 223-224) was the exact opposite of the Manual's: «an individual in an hypnotic trance will rarely perform an immoral act even though commanded to do so by the hypnotist, unless that individual would normally perform such acts.»
[14] The argument on which Hubbard's critics insist, that having received the tract from the Church of Scientology, the FBI suspected its authenticity, is not very telling, for often the FBI was not kept informed of CIA or military services projects in this or other fields.
Still mentioned today, and the subject matter of considerable controversy, is a document published in the 1950s, when, one after the other, several different editions were published of a book known as Brain-Washing: A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook of Psychopolitics. The book is, ostensibly, a summary of manuals circulating in the Soviet Union, allegedly written by the chief of the secret police, Lavrenti Beria (1899-1953).
The text opens with a discourse by Beria addressed to “American students at the Lenin University ”. It goes on by stating some key ideas of dialectical and historical materialism, before examining “psychopolitics” in itself. It suggests creating in the victims an “artificial exhaustion” through drugs and pain, before “implanting” communist doctrines through hypnosis. The process is presented under the name PDH, “pain-drug hypnosis”[1]. In the 1950s a frequent objection to brainwashing theories was that, according to academic hypnologists, ultimately an individual in hypnotic trance would not perform acts radically contrary to his or her will and best interests. The “Manual” claims that this objection in fact comes from communist propaganda: “It is in the interest of Psychopolitics that population be told that an hypnotized person will not do anything against his actual will, will not commit immoral acts, and will not act so as to endanger himself. While this may be true of light, parlour hypnotism, it certainly is not true of commands implanted with the use of electric shocks, drugs, or heavy punishment”[2]. The booklet then relates brainwashing to a larger picture, where two main dangers for the communists are indicated: American individualism (to be substituted, through brainwashing, by a form of group thinking), and religion.
The “Manual” was reprinted some twenty times, and quoted even more often; it played an important role in the discussion on brainwashing. The question of its authorship remains controversial. A curious character, Kenneth Goff (1909-1972), constantly claimed that he was the one who compiled it. Goff was a member of the U.S. Communist Party in the 1903s. He later converted to Fundamentalist Protestantism, only to evolve later towards anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism, and Identity Churches [3]. In the 1940s and 1950s Goff published several autobiographical books and pamphlets, where he graphically described both his conversion and his previous “conditioning” as an American communist by Soviet agents[4]. In 1955, the “Manual” (without mentioning Goff at all) was published by the Church of Scientology, with the indication “Published as a public service by the Church of Scientology”, and with an “editorial note” signed by a professor Charles Stickley, about whom no information is available (in all the other editions, there is also an “editorial note”, but Goff is indicated as its author)[5]. Both the early Goff edition, and the edition published by Scientology, include references to Christian Science and Dianetics as groups that Communist psychopolitics should try to discredit; the Goff version also includes Pentecostals, not mentioned in the Scientology edition.
Critics of Scientology have no doubt that the book was authored by Lafayette Ronald (“L. Ron”) Hubbard (1911-1986), the founder of both Dianetics and Scientology. For example, Bent Corydon is very positive when he claims, based on a statement by Hubbard’s son L. Ron Hubbard Jr. (Ron DeWolf, 1934-1991), that “Dad wrote every word of it”, having apparently been influenced by John Sanborn (1922-) who at the time assisted Hubbard in editing his works[6]. (Subsequently, DeWolf was to state under oath that Corydon had incorrectly quoted many of his statements.) This version has been repeated by countless anti-Scientology works, and has been even quoted as a “confession” by Hubbard that he did indeed know about brainwashing.
In fact, it is alleged by critics, Hubbard discussed brainwashing in several other works, thus “confessing” that he was capable of using it. The latter argument is somewhat contradictory. In fact, Hubbard’s works expose brainwashing as something that should not be practiced, not only for moral reasons, but also because, in Hubbard’s system, brainwashing represents all that Scientology regards as reprehensible and harmful in modern psychiatry. The practice of brainwashing could only end up in disaster, and convert those subject to it into pathetic victims, as such of no much use to any organization[7].
Scientology critics are often confusing two different meanings of the word “brainwashing”, the first referred to techniques using drugs and physical violence in connection with “hypnosis”, and the second to religious indoctrination. The word used, “brainwashing”, is the same, but the meaning is different. Hubbard regards “brainwashing”, in the first meaning, as something very much real (but to be avoided and exposed). In the second meaning, on the other hand, “brainwashing” for Hubbard is just another false argument used by critics in order to assault Scientology and other religions.
Be it as it may be, is Hubbard in any sense the “author” of the “Manual” as published by Scientology in 1955? It is true that the text does include a reference to Dianetics, and paragraphs germane to Scientology’s well-known concerns about psychiatry in general. Goff and his organization, the Soldiers of the Cross, always maintained that the compiler was none else than Goff himself, on the basis of information acquired when he was a Communist[8]. It is also true that what seems to be the earliest Goff edition of the “Manual” has no date[9], and there is no conclusive evidence of whether it had been published before, or after, Scientology’s edition of 1955. On the other hand, several themes about Communist “conditioning” were developed in works by Goff certainly published before 1955[10].
The argument used by some Scientology critics, that Goff died in 1943 (and could not have known about later development, nor as a consequence could he have written the book), is simply wrong. Goff remained active in the US right-wing subculture until the early 1970s, and in fact died in 1972. Those concluding that Goff is the “author” of the book should, on the other hand, face the objection that the style of the “Manual” is more sophisticated if compared with the somewhat crude style of Goff’s earlier works.
Hubbard’s version is told in two technical bulletins of 13 and 19 December 1955. According to the second bulletin, “two manuscripts” were “left at the front desk [of our Phoenix office] with the request that they be mailed back to their owner” (i.e. “Charles Stickley”), and “we are not sure exactly from whom these came”. Subsequently, according to the first bulletin, “it was discovered that a book called Psychopolitics (spelled with a K) is in the Library of Congress. It is in German. It was written by a man called Paul Fadkeller, and was published in Berlin in 1947. Although I may be misinformed, Hubbard goes on to say, and definitely do not read German, this book [the “manual”] is probably the Russian translation”. In the second bulletin, Hubbard also refers that he “read it off onto a tape, compiling the two manuals, and removing from them some of their very verbose nomenclature”. He decided to publish the text for the benefit of the auditors who may face victims of brainwashing[11].
“Paul Fadkeller” is, in fact, neo-Kantian German philosopher Paul Feldkeller (1889-1972). His text “published in Berlin in 1947” [12], a copy of which is in fact at the Library of Congress in Washington D.C., shares with the “Manual” only the first part of the title and the use (but with a quite different meaning) of the word “psychopolitics”. Hubbard’s story, apart form any controversy, is compatible with those who said that he, in fact, read the text onto a tape.
How, however, can Hubbard’s and Goff’s stories be reconciled? Perhaps, both may be right and combining their versions is not impossible. If one compares the “Manual” with the respective works of Hubbard and Goff (obviously, two very different authors), in both cases the style and the ideas are quite different[13]. It may perhaps be possible to solve this problem by suggesting, on the basis of the US government’s and the CIA’s interest in brainwashing in general in the 1950s, that the text was compiled by some governmental agency of the on the basis of a variety of sources (Soviet and US Communist documents, texts on psychopolitics in general, exposes of brainwashing allegedly practiced by both Nazis and Communists). This agency would then have sent the text more or less anonymously to several different organizations (Scientology, Goff’s group, and perhaps others), with sentences which would have captured their attention (including, for Scientology, a specific reference to Dianetics), in the hope that they will publish it[14]. This would confirm both the interest in brainwashing by the CIA and other U.S. governmental agencies during the Cold War and their dissemination of false documents about “Communist brainwashing” through a variety of sources.
[1] Brain-Washing: A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook of Psychopolitics, Los Angeles : The American St. Hill Organization, 1955, p. 36.
[2] Ibid., pp. 32-33.
[3] On Goff see the entry “Kenneth Goff” in Jeffrey Kaplan, Encyclopedia of White Power. A Sourcebook on the Radical Racist Right, Walnut Creek-Lanham ( Maryland )- New York - Oxford : Altamira Press, 2000, pp. 120-122.
[4] See, for example, Kenneth Goff, This is My Story: Confessions of Stalin’s Agent, Englewood ( Colorado ): The Author, 1948; Idem, The Red Betrayal of Youth, Englewood ( Colorado ): by the Author, 1948; Idem, Strange Fire, Englewood (Colorado): The Author, 1954.
[5] In 1970, Morris Kominsky (1901-1975), a left-wing activist and one-time candidate of the US Communist Party for governor of Rhode Island (in 1938), published a book whose intent was to expose the pathological anti-communism of the American right (The Hoaxers: Plain Liars, Fancy Liars, and Damned Liars, Boston: Branden Press, 1970). There, at pages 537-586, Kominsky published a detailed analysis of the “Manual”, whose aim was to show that it could not have been written in the Soviet Union. Kominsky had no doubt that the author was Goff, and published (ibid., pp. 547-549) the text of an interview with Goff himself. Goff claimed to have distributed 1,000 mimeographed copies of the “Manual” certainly before 1955, and even offered a $500 reward for any information about the mysterious Mr. Stickley.
[6] See Bent Corydon - L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?, Lyle Stuart Inc., Secaucus (New Jersey) 1987, pp. 101-111.
[7] In another text by L.R. Hubbard, included in All About Radiation (Man’s Inhumanity to Man) by a nuclear physicist and a medical doctor, London : Hubbard Association of Scientologists International, 1957, pp. 62-63, brainwashing is again connected with “torture”, and it is stated that the Soviets knew it since 1927-1928. It is also noted that “brainwashing was attempted on Mindzensky [sic]. It didn’t work but, for a moment, he quivered and wavered at his trial” – a reference to Roman Catholic Hungarian Cardinal József Mindszenty (1892-1975). In a technical bulletin of July 22, 1956, Hubbard wrote that “We can brainwash faster that the Russians. 20 secs to total amnesia against three years to slightly confused loyalty” (Idem., The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology. Vol. II, 1954-1956, reprint, Copenhagen - Los Angeles : Scientology Publications, 1986, p. 474). The context, however, is an invitation to Scientology auditors to keep a higher moral standard, according to which not all what is technically possible should be practiced. However, in this case also, the effect of brainwashing is “total amnesia”, confirming that Hubbard used the work “brainwashing” with a meaning different from the prevailing literature of that time (“total amnesia” being something different from the conversion to new ideas).
[8] See Colonel Gordon “Jack” Mohr, “Editorial’s Note”, in the version he edited of Brain-Washing (Mind-Changing). A Synthesis of a Russian Textbook on Mass Mind-Control (Psychopolitics), Phoenix (Arizona): Lord’s Covenant Church-America’s Promise Broadcasts, 1982, pp. 4-5. Mohr, who was close to Goff for several years and part of the same subculture, is still certain to this date that “Hubbard did not write the book” (letter by G.J. Mohr to M. Introvigne, June 5, 2001).
[9] See K. Goff, Brainwashing. A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics, Englewood (Colorado): Kenneth Goff, n.d.
[10] See for example K. Goff, This is My Story. Confessions of Stalin’s Agent, op. cit.
[11] L. Ron Hubbard, The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology. Volume II: 1954-1956, reprint, op. cit., pp. 309-310 and pp. 312-313. In Corydon’s book, L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?, op. cit., p. 103, there is an allusion to the Feldkeller reference as follows: “Ron Jr.: (…) Years later, they [the Scientologists] snuck it into the Library of Congress, and somebody else came by, and said ‘Oh, look, it was found in the Library of Congress!’, which is a lot of baloney”. The problem here, however, is that the Library of Congress does not own either the Scientology or the Goff version of the “Manual”. It owns, on the other hand, the work by Feldkeller, quite well-known by the scholars of this German philosopher, and by no means “snuck” by Scientologists into the Library.
[12] See also Idem., Psycho-Politik. Zur Demokratisierung, politischen Erziehung und Säuberung, Berlin : Chronos-Verlag, 1947, where at pp. 106-110 there is a definition of “Psychopolitics”, quite different from the one found in the “Manual”.
[13] Some have remarked that «pain-drug hypnosis» and at least one other expression, «thinkingness,» are only found in the «Manual» and in Scientology publications. «Pain-drug hypnosis» is mentioned only in the «Manual,» in Scientology works, and in Goff (after the 1950s): but did Hubbard and Goff derived it from the «Manual» or viceversa? For «thinkingness,» however, there are pre-Hubbard precedents. On the other hand, L. R. Hubbard's position on hypnosis in his 1951 Science of Survival. Simplified, Faster Dianetic Techniques (Hubbard Dianetic Foundation, Wichita 1951, pp. 223-224) was the exact opposite of the Manual's: «an individual in an hypnotic trance will rarely perform an immoral act even though commanded to do so by the hypnotist, unless that individual would normally perform such acts.»
[14] The argument on which Hubbard's critics insist, that having received the tract from the Church of Scientology, the FBI suspected its authenticity, is not very telling, for often the FBI was not kept informed of CIA or military services projects in this or other fields.
Saturday, January 5, 2008
Lies on the Members only site
Read the below data -
National Campaigns - David Marston - NC has been asked by HQ to coordinate Knights Party media campaigns and to work on behalf of HQ directly with associates. As it states in the Knights Party Handbook (available to Knights - this outlines our third party strategy - if you have ever wondered why we don't run candidates you need to get this handbook) the first and most important aspect of any political campaign is name recognition and a solidifying of our beliefs among the general public.
There is no David Marston. His real name is David Barnett. Yes, once again the Knights' Party lies about members who don't exist. David is some middle age man who spends all his free time hanging out with boy scouts in North Carolina.
National Campaigns - David Marston - NC has been asked by HQ to coordinate Knights Party media campaigns and to work on behalf of HQ directly with associates. As it states in the Knights Party Handbook (available to Knights - this outlines our third party strategy - if you have ever wondered why we don't run candidates you need to get this handbook) the first and most important aspect of any political campaign is name recognition and a solidifying of our beliefs among the general public.
There is no David Marston. His real name is David Barnett. Yes, once again the Knights' Party lies about members who don't exist. David is some middle age man who spends all his free time hanging out with boy scouts in North Carolina.
Randy Gray shows a sign of mental illness on ANSWP radio
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H280kApBhn0
Yes people, this is the Klan of today. This is the "leadership" of the Knights' Party. Listen and laugh until you cry.
Yes people, this is the Klan of today. This is the "leadership" of the Knights' Party. Listen and laugh until you cry.
Back in 08
I am sorry I've been slow with updating this site. Don't worry, we will expose the Knights' Party in 08 just as much as we did in 07. Thanks for all the feedback. I knew people would enjoy this site however, I never saw the overall fan base being as strong as it was. Thanks for all the help to those out that who sent information to us.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)